Episode 4: Saying Yes with Tiffany Han

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Today I’m talking with coach and writer Tiffany Han about incremental progress, making space, and saying yes to what you really want in life. As a participant in Tiffany’s Raise Your Hand Say Yes Inner Circle, I’m so excited about this episode. I’ve gained so much from working with and getting to know Tiffany over the past year, and I’m thrilled to be able to share just a bit of her wisdom with you!

Guest: Tiffany Han

Host of the Raise Your Hand Say Yes podcast, Tiffany Han is a life coach who teaches smart, driven women how to become the most remarkable versions of themselves and learn to raise their hands and say yes to all the things they want to do, be, and say without compromising their standards—or their sanity. 


Here’s what we discussed on this episode:


Note: This transcript is largely unedited. An edited version is on the way, but I wanted to get it live alongside the episode even if it meant publishing a less-polished version to start.


You’re listening to How to Be Creative, a podcast about what it means to be creative across different disciplines, industries, life circumstances, and career structures. You’ll learn tips for fitting creativity into your daily life and hear from a bunch of different people about how being creative has helped them reach goals, open doors, and live a more rewarding–or at least more interesting–life. I’m your host, Kat O’Leary, and I’m excited to introduce you to some of my favorite creatives, as well as to the tools that help me get my most crucial work done.


Kat: Hi, and welcome to How to Be Creative. So today I’m really excited to bring you this conversation with Tiffany Han, host of the Raise Your Hand Say Yes podcast. Tiffany is a life coach who teaches smart driven women how to become the most remarkable versions of themselves and learn to just raise their hands and say yes to all the things they want to do and say without compromising their standards or their sanity. Tiffany, thank you so much for joining me. I thank you. I’m so excited to be here. I’m so excited. So, um, as we were chatting a little bit before we started recording, um, I was saying to Tiffany that I think this episode is going to be a little bit different from some of the others that I’ve recorded so far in that, um, you know, for the past, well this is the final month actually of your year long Raise Your Hand Say Yes Inner Circle Course, um, that I’ve been a part of. And so I feel like I’ve spent the past now 11 plus months really, really engaging with your work. Um, and so I’m really excited to introduce you and what you were about to some new people, um, and then also kind of demystify sort of what, what you do, um, what you do with your students, et Cetera, and the people you coach. Um, so I guess what makes sense, um, to me it’s probably, if you don’t mind just starting out by talking a little bit about kind of the background of your, um, you know, sort of your career as a coach and how you got here.

Tiffany: Yeah. So the, the short story is, um, I’ve, I studied psychology in college and I always wanted to do something where I felt like I was being of service, uh, to the world. So I worked in nonprofits for a long time. I considered going back to school to study social work or public policy or, um, I thought about getting a phd in psychology. I also, you know, kind of my turning point happened when I had decided to get an MBA and, um, was in the process of applying for business schools and realized that I didn’t want to do that either. And I, when I discovered coaching, which I first learned about coaching, I think in 2009, I was really, really excited about the idea of it as a career because it felt to me like this same sort of working with people one on one that I was craving in terms of how I wanted to be of service.

Tiffany: But it also felt very action oriented. Um, and it felt like something that, that I was a good energetic fit for. So I got my coach training in 2011. I’ve been coaching ever since. Um, and I have done all kinds of different types of coaching. I’ve done life coaching, I’ve done business coaching, I’ve done branding, coaching, and when I kind of look at the grand scope of all of the things that I do, um, and try to figure out what the threads have run through all the different things I’ve called myself and all the different ways that I’ve helped people, it really comes down to helping creative women who are super capable and really smart and really driven, help them design their lives so that they feel as good on the inside is that they look on the outside. Um, and I really do believe that we can do that without having to compromise our standards, as you said, or our sanity. And it really for me is about helping you have both, helping you have the life that looks the way you want it to look, but also feels really great so that when you wake up in the morning, you’re excited to get to have another day.

Kat: Yeah, I love that so much and that really resonates with me. And it’s something that I’d say probably over the past year and maybe this is a byproduct of working with you. Um, it’s definitely something that I’ve been sort of inching toward in my own life. Um, and I, I do kind of feel like I’m at the point where, um, I, I feel, you know, you want your life. Sometimes. I, I, this is kind of a joke, but sometimes I’ll think of it as I want my life to be as good as it looks on Instagram. Right? Very easy. And if you know any, any people who are really more in kind of the influencer space, um, you know, that’s just a ton of work. It’s, um, kind of grueling work, honestly. Um, and I don’t ever want my life to feel that way. Um, I want, not that I expect things to be effortless, but I want there to be some sense of ease in everything that I do. And so that’s, uh, something that I’ve said as a priority for myself. And I love that you’re helping other women do that as well.

Tiffany: Yeah. And I love that you said that you’re inching towards it. And I think that’s a really important thing to underline is that we often think that we need one thing and that’s going to completely revolutionize our life. Or if we only change this one thing about ourselves or this one thing about our day or this one habit, and what I found over and over and over again and why my inner circle is a year long program, is that, you know, part of what I’m after is helping women redesign their lives, but in a way that feels really authentic to who they are. And that feels really in alignment with the things that they want to do. And I recognize that this work takes time to simmer and it takes time to try things out and figure out what you want to do and where you want to go and experiment and then get busy and then come back to it and all of that. And so I actually think that inching towards it, while for those of us who are super driven and over achievers feels like we’re failing is actually the most sustainable way to create any kind of change.

Kat: Absolutely agree. And I feel like I’ve been having a lot of conversations recently about seasonality and the idea that, um, you know, when you, when you’re thinking about what progress looks like, it’s important not to think about, well what did I do in the span of this week or, or in the span of this day or this month. But to think about it along a little bit of a longer timeline. And I think for that reason it makes total sense to do, raise your hand, say us as a inner circle as it full year course. Um, and for me there have definitely been months where I, there’ve been months where I am an absolute adherent to the program. I do everything, I check all the boxes, I fill out all the worksheets, sheets in our workbooks. Um, and then there are other months where I maybe do 50% of the assignments. And I think as kind of a homework dewar type person, that was a challenge for me in the beginning because I definitely came in with a sense of I’m going to do all of the things always for this full year and that’s just not feasible. That’s not how reality works. That’s not how life works. So, um, I, I’m getting better now I think at embracing this idea of incremental change and progress not perfection is a term that I heard a lot of people throw around that has really resonated with me lately as well. Yeah.

Tiffany: You know, this isn’t about, I think that that’s really, really easy for us to feel resentment towards the lives that we’ve worked so hard to create because they get in the way of the things that we want to do next. And I’m all about how can we integrate this into your life so that they can compliment each other rather than it being an either or. And so that’s why, you know, I would encourage you to get a 50% or even just ignore the work for a month, that that’s what you need to, as long as you’re willing and able to come back to it when it’s time and when you have a little bit more space.

Kat: Yeah. But I think that can be a challenge too, right? Cause sometimes you get in this mindset of it’s all or nothing. And then if you, um, you know, you maybe skip out for a month or something and then trying to get back into it, there can almost be this mental block of, oh well I broke the chain and therefore, um, you know, there’s no point in restarting and that’s been a big thing that I’ve kind of tried to overcome I think in the last, probably even just the last quarter or so.

Tiffany: Yeah. I think that, I mean, I think all or nothing, it sounds really cool. Um, and is that, you know, it’s like really intense and, and I know for me like I’m often really excited by messages like that and it’s easy for me to like get into it and be like, yeah, it’s all or nothing. Don’t break the chain. And I think what I realized for myself is sometimes I need to break the chain. Sometimes I need to like put the chain down it. And especially as somebody who is really a doer, um, it’s so easy for me to, you know, kill myself to not break the chain and then look around and be like, wait a minute, I don’t even like this chain. It’s not even serving me. I recently had someone I’m working with, um, a friend of mine who’s a coach on kind of trying to reshape some of my habits and essentially teach myself how to really relax because I’m not very good at that.

Tiffany: Um, and one of the things I said to her was, I don’t understand because I’m so good and I meditate every day and I do all the things and I take long walks. And, and she was like, well, when you meditate, does it, do you feel relief from it? Does it give you a release? And I was like, oh no, I was just doing it to check the box because I thought it meditation habit was like air quotes, the way to relaxation and freedom and peace. And so it was a really big permission point for me to be like, it’s a not about doing the things for the sake of doing the things. It’s about what are they going to give you? And then I started to look at, okay, what are some other ways that I can give myself the freedom, the ease, the connection, the peace, the flow, all of that without it necessarily being in the meditation.

Kat: Right? Or like any other thing where you’re just, it’s another thing to add to your, to do list and then you can,

Tiffany: it,

Kat: it’s like, oh, well now that I’ve done that, I must be relaxed.

Tiffany: Right? And then you think there’s something wrong with you because you’re not right. And I, I’m kind of an anti relaxer. So,

Kat: um, and actually one of the things that meditation I, I had kind of set as a daily goal and have more or less done away with it. Um, and in part for the reasons you discuss, kind of like, oh, I was doing it as a check the box thing and, and there are times when it really helps me in, is valuable to me and now I try to only do it when, when I’m doing it for that reason or for that goal or not just because, oh, well it’s Wednesday I meditated Monday and Tuesday, now I have to check off my Wednesday box. Right. Yeah. Um, so, um, you are also a podcast host and your podcast recently had a pretty big birthday.

Tiffany: Yeah, my, I guess her five.

Kat: That’s amazing. And you’re also a mom to twin girls, right? So your podcast is younger than your, your children. Right? My podcast

Tiffany: is about six months younger than my girls. Yeah. Wow, that’s amazing. So you started it as a new mom. That’s really incredible. So I wanted to talk a little bit about what you’ve learned in the five years that you’ve been doing. Raise your hand, say yes. Um, and also, you know, kind of how your podcasts and your work have changed over the past five years and what’s, what’s driven that. Yeah, so it’s so funny because I didn’t even realize that my podcast was turning five until people started congratulating me on linkedin. Is it like notified people about my podcast anniversary and I got a, I would get on these like congratulations messages and I was like, what? What have I done? And I went and clicked through and I was like, oh, would you look at that? My podcast is, is five. And, and I think that that points to one of the biggest pieces of learning is that for me, the joy in the podcasting has really been in getting to work on it every week and getting to shift it and grow and all of that.

Tiffany: And like the milestone of, of, you know, five years, honestly, Kat, I thought it was a mistake when I first saw it. I was like, no, it’s like a year and a half. And then I did the math and remember that like my daughter’s just started kindergarten so that like, yes, my podcast is the same age that they are. And I was like, wow, what a cool thing. And you know, I like to say like had I set out to start the podcast and thought, what am I going to be talking about five years from now, I would have immediately gotten burnt out and overwhelmed and it never would have happened. Um, and so that’s been one of the biggest learnings. And, and I, I, I think for anything that we do right, find the thing that you’re super excited about doing today and maybe next week and let kind of the future of it go.

Tiffany: Because if you’re able to stay excited about it week after week, you’re going to hold onto that connection. Um, rather than trying, I think that we’re really good at like putting a lot of pressure on things and overthinking everything and I don’t, I just don’t think that’s serving us or our ideas. And it also doesn’t give a lot of room for things to evolve. So you asked about how things have changed and you know, I’ve really, the podcast is called raise your hand, say yes. So it’s, it’s always had kind of this overarching theme of raise your hand and say yes to the things you want and then trust that you’ll figure them out. But I think when I first started I was really, um, it was really all about say yes to things and figure them out and make them happen no matter what. And throughout the course of the last five years is I’ve changed things in my business as my children have grown up, I quit drinking.

Tiffany: Um, and that has become a big part of what I talk about and conversations I have on the podcast. Um, it, it’s shifted a little bit into like, raise your hand, say yes, asterisk, but really say no a whole lot and make sure that you’re saying yes to the things you want. And a lot of times those things aren’t gonna look really good on paper, but they’re what you need more. So I think I’ve gotten a lot more gentle, um, in my approach and, and a lot of that has had to do directly with, I’ve gotten a lot more gentle with how I treat myself. That’s great. Yeah.

Kat: Um, yeah. And so another question I had was thinking back to, um, when you started your, I was thinking about it in terms of when you started your business, but it could also be the podcast specifically. So I guess my question is really about both. Um, you know, how do you feel like your vision for the things that you’ve started has ended up differing from the reality of it today?

Tiffany: Oh Gosh. Um, I think, I think I thought I would get to the place where I had things more figured out. Hmm. Right. And then they would be like a more buttoned up. Um, and that, you know, people are so funny cause they’ll come to my house and I work from my house. I have an office in my house and they’ll come over and be like, where’s your podcasting studio? Um, and I’ll just like point to my desk. And I’m like, it’s just my desk. Um, and I think that, that we have this vision that when people get to a certain place in their work or in their business or in the things that they do, that mastery looks a certain way. Um, and I, I just don’t know that it does. I feel, I still feel, I feel like I have more figured out, but I still feel like for the most part, I’m figuring things out as I go.

Kat: Yeah, that makes total sense. Yeah. And I think, I don’t know, sometimes when you, when you start out with an idealized version of what something will look like down the road, um, what you’re envisioning is a somewhat sanitized version of what anything in real life, which is obviously messy and complicated, could actually look like, yeah. It’s like, you think you’re gonna get, I get

Tiffany: like the Sit-com version of the thing, right? Or like the lifetime movie version of the thing, which is the, like I picture, right. And I could see it, I’m looking around my office right now and like I could see what that kind of idealized Instagram influencer version of the work that I’m doing right now is, and my office is cleaner and they’re fresh flowers and my children are dressed in matching outfits and they’re playing quietly on the floor, which is absolutely not what’s happening right now. Um, you know, and I’m probably different clothes that are a lot more expensive, things like that. But I also, I think that part of that is, is we’ve been taught that that is what we should be aspiring to and it’s not necessarily the case.

Kat: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s, it’s also not really aspirational if it’s not something that people can actually achieve.

Tiffany: Right. Because like you said, you know, you know people who live that Instagram influencer life and it’s grueling. Yeah. So I know for myself, and I’m not like the tiniest of people, um, but I know for myself that I can either have a really tidy space or I can get my work done.

Kat: Right, right. And which is more important. It’s obviously getting the work done.

Tiffany: Exactly. And other people might have, might be like, no, if my space is and tidy, then I can’t do anything and good for them. Right. I considered an asset that I can just ignore mess and focus on the, the what’s most important.

Kat: Yeah, absolutely. And honestly, even when you’re, even if you’re someone who, no needs to need some kind of, um, you know, clean space or whatever it is, in order to focus, you can kind of just point your line of vision in a different direction and probably find it without too much time spent procrastinating by cleaning your place. Exactly. Please. That’s my strategy. Just face a wall. Everything’s fine. Um, so another thing I wanted to talk about, so you’ve had, I feel like there were these core things that, that you do in your work, right? So the inner circle is one of them. Um, and your podcast is another one. And then I’ve noticed that you also seem to dabble in a lot of other kind of creative mini projects. I’m not sure how you, what you would call them. Um, so for example, you know, the money, sex freedom series, um, the claim your thing I little program that you’re doing next week, things like that. And I’m kind of wondering how do you decide what to add in and how do you think about incorporating new things like that into the work that you’re already doing? And how does that kind of, um, how does it feed into, you know, how you, how you think about Your Business and your podcast?

Tiffany: Yeah, that’s it. Such a good question. So I’ll tell you how I used to do it and then how I do it now because they’re very different. And I think that again, as I’ve leaned more towards kindness and gentleness to myself, um, this has changed a lot in the last few years because I’ve spent a lot of time in burnout, like operating just within burnout. And I think I’ve learned a lot. So the way that I used to do it is I would, I have an idea, I would say yes to it. I would then do whatever it took to follow that idea through. So often for me that meant staying up until midnight, not sleeping. I’m working weekends when my daughters were little, I would often like work all day long, Monday through Friday and my husband worked weekends and then I would be solo parenting the girls, this was back when they did two naps a day.

Tiffany: So I’d be solo with the girls on the weekend and like during their two naps, both days I would be at my desk working, trying to make it all happen. Um, which is a great way to get stuff done but also a terrible way to get stuff done because I wasn’t necessarily operating from a place of flow. I was really spreading myself too thin and I was not taking very good care of myself. Um, the way that I do things now is that I really try to, for any idea I have, I first of all get the idea and then I just wait on it. Um, did you have a question on that?

Kat: No, that’s, I, I’m just, I, I’m in agreement. That’s kind of how I started thinking about things as well cause it’s very easy to just rush into, um, something that sounds great without actually thinking through, well what are the steps that that requires and does that part also sound great?

Tiffany: Yeah. And I would actually suspect that you and I probably have very similar tendencies just based on what I’ve seen you accomplish this year. And I bet that probably based on everything that you did, there’s probably a very long list of things that you didn’t do or didn’t have time to do or weren’t able to get to. Um, and so I sit on the idea, I wait and then I try to really, really recognize like what does it, how is it going to help? Right? How’s it going to help my business? How’s it going to help somebody out there who wants to move something forward? Um, and then I also try to extend my timeline as much as possible. So often what that looks like is all have an idea for a new class or a new mini teaching or any podcast series. And my instinct is to be like, great, I’m going to do this tomorrow and then I’ll pause and be like, or I’ll do it in three months or I’ll do it next spring. Which in the moment feels like torture. But I’ve also learned that it’s always for the best and the things that are meant to happen right away. Like you’ll get the sign or an opportunity will show up or something will happen where they can happen right away. Yeah, that makes total sense to me. And another, another sort of related thing for me that comes up sometimes is

Kat: sometimes I’ll, I’ll have an idea and I’ll think, okay, I can do this months from now, but then I’ll start to worry. But if I wait six months, is someone else gonna take my idea? So I don’t know if you face any of that as well.

Tiffany: Yeah. I mean they might write like they totally my aid and, and I think that they’re, you have to have, like, you have to make that decision not from a place of fear. Right. Often we make that decision from a place of fear. Like, Oh, well I’m not ready yet, which is just procrastination. And so then we don’t do it and then somebody else does it and we’re like, ugh. And then we just never end up doing it. Um, I think that making that decision from a place of love and really from a place of grace to yourself has a very different energy. Um, but also I, I have had that happen multiple times where I’ve wanted to do something I haven’t been able to, and then I sort of see some other version of it getting produced. But I, I think like when I see that happen, my first instinct is, oh, I’m so mad that it happened. And then I come around to cool. I hope that does really well for that person because what that will do is show me that this idea has merit and then I can make my own version of the thing

Kat: right. And sort of use them as, um, you know, almost your own kind of pilot program and see what, what’s working for them, what’s not working for them, and then tweak your own accordingly. And then I think also, and we touched on this actually, we had our final, um, our final live teaching for inner circle today. And we were talking a little bit about the idea that, you know, what’s important is it’s not really about what you do with much as the fact that you are the one doing it.

Tiffany: Exactly. Yeah. And if you have designed your life and your work and your days so that whatever it is that you’re touching really lights you up, then whatever you’re working on today is going to be just as exciting as whatever could come up for you six months from now.

Kat: Yeah. That’s so true. Yep. And a lot of the time if you’re, if it feels like you’re passing up an opportunity now because you don’t have the bandwidth, sometimes that just means that you’re going to need that bandwidth in two or three months for something that’s a lot more powerful and a lot more, um, you know, kind of in line with what you should be doing or, or what path you’re on.

Tiffany: Yeah, totally. And that’s something that has come up for me a lot in my 100 rejection letters program and my own rejection letters quest, um, is I’ve gotten, I’ve been turned down for things and later on I’ve been able to use the same idea or some variation of the idea to pitch somewhere else and it’s, I’ve ended up multiple times getting a yes and having it be a better opportunity in some way or another than the original thing that I was trying to get. So it’s one of those things that just like having the faith and keeping your eye on where you are right now and what’s going to kind of most let you up today. And I think that if you’re able to do that, um, that’s where, that’s where these lives that we really want start to get born.

Kat: Yeah. Wow. That’s really amazing. Yeah. Um, I, and I do think for me, I think faith is such a big part of it. And when I’m operating from a place of faith or love, um, I’m just a lot more open to receiving things versus trying to control everything so tightly because I’m afraid of what will happen if something doesn’t go exactly as I think I want it to.

Tiffany: Yeah. That’s not, I mean, I’ve been there too and it’s not a, um, not a fun place to be.

Kat: Not at all. Um, yeah. So I did want to talk a little bit in, in more depth about inner circles. So we talked a lot about, um, you know, why it’s a year long course. Um, and having gone through most of it myself at this point, I can absolutely say that I, I value the cadence at which we’ve been kind of moving through things. Um, but one thing I think is really interesting about it is that among the people taking the course alongside me, there’s just such a breadth of different interests and disciplines and we have visual artists or writers and, um, you know, podcasters and just a lot of different types of people. And I’m really intrigued by the fact that you were able to create this course that works so well for a broad range of people. And it’s just kind of equally relevant regardless of what each individual is seeking to do. And I guess I’m using the inner circle as a jumping off point for this, but I think it’s true for your podcasts as well. Like I would recommend episodes of your podcast to people that I might not necessarily think of as creatives and I think they would still get a lot of value out of it.

Tiffany: Yeah, I think that I, you know, I, I view things and this is where I like side a little because I recognize that the things that I instinctively know I need to do for my business tend to flow counter to like traditional wisdom around this. So, you know, a lot of times and definitely in coaches in coaching, um, but also just in general industries, like the key is that you niche really hard. You get really specific about what problems you solve. You get really specific about the outcomes that you’re providing. And then you build your entire business platform on that. Um, and that has been recommended to me countless times before as like the answer to my success and cat. Every time I’ve tried to do that, I’ve ended up feeling just really, really dissatisfied because I’m like, yeah, but I know that there are these people over here and these people over here and these people over here and I can help them too.

Tiffany: And at the same time, um, the idea of talking to people who are creative that has also, I don’t want to say gotten me in trouble, but it’s also, um, I’ve bumped up against people who want to work with me. They want to take a class and then they come to me and they say, I really, really drawn to your work but I’m not creative. Can I still do this? And my whole thing is like, we are all creative. Every single human on this planet is creative because creativity is just problem solving. And so your times when I pulled back a little bit from the creative label, but at the same time I’m like, no, this is, this is actually what, what matters most. And, and I think for me what I try to look at is what do all of these people have in common?

Tiffany: Um, and how can I get really clear on that so that I can use that in terms of, of messaging and how I’m talking to my audience and the, the threads that run through everybody, even though they look really different from the outside, is that they’re driven, they’re really smart, they’re really capable, they’re really ambitious. They can take any single idea and run with it. And part of what I’m trying to do is help teach everybody how to make sure that the ideas they’re running with are the ones that are most in alignment with who they are. And rather than teaching it from like a formula [inaudible] my, my number one goal is to help each and every one of you kind of find yourself, get into a deeper communion with yourself so that you can start to learn that from the inside out rather than being told it and then trying to make yourself fit into some other box.

Tiffany: Yeah, that makes so much sense. And honestly, when I think about, you know, the idea of kind of having to, um, identify one particular niche and sort of winnow your business down to that, um, those aren’t the types of entrepreneurs, leaders, business owners that whose works, whose work tends to resonate with me. I’m very much drawn to people who are multi-passionate, who have a lot of different things that they care about and who are able to kind of piece all of the different parts of themselves together in a way that somehow makes sense holistically. Even if, if you were looking at them as purely a business, let’s say, and thinking about these as different verticals, it might not make sense. Right. And I, you know, the common denominator for me and all of this is, is myself. And so I feel like if, as long as all of the work is coming through me, I mean I’m trusting, right? This is a faith piece. So like, as long as all of the work is coming through me, um, that it will still be on brand and I can change and evolve and grow as I need to. And, and it feels to me like freedom. Um, but at the same time, sometimes I just think, oh, I wish I could just help people with this very specific thing, but I also know that I would be bored immediately. And so, um, you know, I’ve, at this point, I’ve dug into how things are. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

Kat: Getting back to what you said earlier about the idea of creativity as problem solving, I love that so much because I do think there is a pretty sizable contingent of people who truly believe that they’re not creative. And so I think the word creative or the word creativity can be a little bit off putting and maybe even scary. Um, and so as I’ve been getting this podcast off the ground, I’ve been thinking a lot about, well how do I make that more palatable to a broader audience? And so I always think about it as resourcefulness. And that’s a word that I’ve used with a few of my friends where I’ve been kind of explaining to them what I’ve been up to. Um, and I think that’s a less scary term, kind of similar to problem solving because you think of it more as a business capability versus, um, an innate skill that you either have or don’t have. Um, and I don’t, and which is something I don’t believe about creativity. I think it’s a practice and I think it’s something that everyone has and everyone can hone.

Tiffany: Yeah. And I think that we’ve been taught that creativity equals being a visual artist, writing able to like put paint on a canvas and have it look a certain way. And, and you know, my whole raise your hand says philosophy is that the key to success is that you raise your hand and say yes and you trust that you’ll figure it out. And for me really that, that trust that you figure it out, p’s points to resourcefulness, points to creativity. Um, and that’s, it’s, I think as simple as that. And I think probably most of us are most creative when we like open the refrigerator and figure out how to make ourselves a meal based on what is in there. Right. But, but we think that we have to be like, you know, paint collage artists, belly dancers, opera singers in order to be creative. And like, for most of us, creativity looks a lot more mundane and boring, but we’re still solving problems.

Kat: Wow. I love that. Yeah, that’s really great. And it, um, I, so I joined a CSA this year and so part of the reason why I did that was because I thought it would kind of force me to get more creative with food. And I’ve definitely found that to be the case. Um, and then, um,

Tiffany: Sarah Vaughan bargain

Kat: does this thing sometimes. So she’s the, she writes the Yes and yes. Blog. She’s also a coach. Um, and she does a lot of things about, um, the intersection of money and happiness. I know Tiffany, you know, all of this, but just for anyone in the audience who might not be familiar with Sarah, um, she’s, she does this thing sometimes and I can’t remember what she calls it, but basically goes on like a

Tiffany: okay

Kat: grocery shopping diet and just eats from whatever’s in

Tiffany: the house for some set period of time. And I started doing that on occasion and that’s been a really fun kind of creative exercise as well. That’s just a simple thing that you can do. Um, you know, [inaudible] you’re basically forced to do it with what’s at hand. Doesn’t that always, so she calls it her no grocery challenge and I do this and it is like, don’t you feel like a superhero after you do it? Oh, absolutely. I’m like, Oh, I just learned how to make some curry that I never would. It never would’ve occurred to me to make if I hadn’t googled this assortment of ingredients that I just happen to have in my house. Yep. Yeah. Credible. And I think this is also a really, really good example of how creativity thrives within structure and within parameters. And I radically, most of us kind of walk through the world thinking, oh, well, if only I didn’t have any of these parameters in my life, I would be, you know, bounced fully creative and I would just run through the fields of flowers all the time and you know, have all of these ideas when in fact I, I see people thinking that’s the answer a lot and then they get to that place and they are paralyzed because there are too many choices, too many different options, too many places to go and for you, right.

Tiffany: I love that. Like you do the no grocery challenge and you get the CSA with the goal of being more creative in the kitchen. But if you were to just sort of like have the goal of being more creative in the kitchen with zero parameters, you probably never get started. Absolutely true. I would probably just order a delivery every night, which I guess that’s a form of creativity or to least resourceful. This is problem solving. Definitely problem solving. Um, so another question I had and um, you know, there may not be a clear answer to this is do you have a daily routine? And if so, what does that look like? Or what could a day in the life of Tiffany Han look like? Yeah. So it looks, I mean every day is different and I know that that’s such an annoying answer to this kind of thing.

Tiffany: But it though I’m like, um, let’s talk about all the days. Who Cares? So, um, my kids just started kindergarten last week. Um, and my husband also started a new job. So before last week my husband was home with the girls and they were in preschool on Tuesday and Thursday, which meant that my life had a not very reliable rhythm, um, because there were often a lot of people around. I was very distractible. Um, you know, there are a lot of different things. So as of last week, I am at a place where five days a week the house is empty, starting at 7:15 AM. Um, then I have like, they usually get home between two 30 and three. So it’s been really, really interesting where I’ve been able to like ask myself some of the questions that I asked y’all in the inner circle of like, what do I want my day to feel like?

Tiffany: What do I need? What kinds of routines do I want to introduce? And for the month of September, I’m just kind of playing around with things, trying to figure out like what, what is giving me relief, what feels good, what feels like an obligation? And so what I’m trying to do, I’m trying to experiment with not doing any appointments or calls until 11:00 AM to try to keep my like 8:00 AM to 11:00 AM open for doing some kind of exercise and journaling, some reading, some writing. Um, I’m working on a book, um, just a place to have like a little bit of a creative fire and I was able to, to do that for the first time this morning and I felt really, really good. So I’m gonna lean into that a little bit more and give it a couple of weeks and like really see what kind of structure I can pull in.

Kat: I love that. Yeah, that’s great. And Yeah, and I think in periods of transition it can be very easy to try to tightly control things and, and set all of these, um, you know, specific parameters around what things need to look like. But I almost feel like if you can kind of bend into that transition with ease, you’ll probably end up with a better result and something that feels a little bit more, um, you know, authentic and more in flow for you.

Tiffany: Yeah. And I’ve realized, I recognized yesterday that like, you know, I started my podcast when my girls were six months old and we moved from California to Colorado a year ago. Um, and I’ve really not felt settled probably since my daughters were born. Like I left my, I left my, my, I was working part time at my old nonprofit. I left that job in 2013 and then two months later I got pregnant with twins, which I had a very healthy pregnancy but also was exhausting and I was sick for a really long time and I had very little energy. Um, and so I recognize that like I haven’t [inaudible] really had like a full time all of my time to myself kind of workflow ever. And so really fun opportunity for me to like recreate it however I want. But again, that feels also like, oh, I don’t know, this feels hard. So I’m trying to be really gentle with myself, also get really, really curious and he’s moment of like, do I want to start working right away? Yesterday I went and worked out right away. I’ve just started working out with a trainer. So I went and had a session with her yesterday morning and then today I was home all morning. And it’s like, what’s better for me? Is it better to get out of the house right away or is it better to sort of ease into my day and have a little bit of spaciousness?

Kat: Yeah, I love that. Um, so I guess my next question sort of feeds from this one. So it sounds like right now there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of stuff in transition. You’re kind of figuring out what things look like, but when you think about, you know, a little bit farther in the future other than inner circle starting up again on October 1st. Um, so what else is in the pipeline for Tiffany Han right now? That’s it too excited about,

Tiffany: I’m excited that I don’t really know. Um, so the inner circle starts back up in October application. So it’s an application only program applications are opening in a couple of weeks. So getting ready for that and then processing that and getting all the kids out is kind of taking up my September. Um, and then after that, Kat, honestly I have no idea what’s coming next. I’ve got some ideas for different classes. Um, I’m working on my book. I, that’s, that’s really all I know. And for the first time ever in my business, I’m fine with that being the answer, which feels really revolutionary.

Kat: Yeah, I think that’s amazing. And I think that’s,

Tiffany: yeah,

Kat: it’s also a testament to kind of what you were talking about earlier about starting out with these very specific ideas or, you know, I think we’ve both kind of gone through a similar evolution on this, um, and starting out with this specific idea of what something should look like and then kind of getting more and more comfortable, um, as you grow with kind of letting things go and kind of seeing what happens more. Um, so I really love that and I do feel like I’ve made a lot of progress on that front, um, over the past few months. Um, and definitely working with you. It’s been a big part of that, um, for which I’m really grateful. Um, so I don’t know if there’s anything else that we haven’t touched on. Um, I will drop all of this stuff that we’ve talked about into the show notes. Um, but in the meantime, um, where should people look for you? I’m on the web. I’m on social media. Where’s the best spot to find Tiffany?

Tiffany: Yeah, so, um, Instagram is my social media platform of choice. Um, and my, um, over there, the Tiffany Han and you can find me wherever you’re listening to this podcast. Um, you can also find, raise your hand, say yes. So you can just search, raise your hand, say yes and I’m on all the, all the podcast players. Um, and then you can find out more about me and my website, Tiffany han.com. And also if you’re listening to this and you’re interested in more information about the inner circle, um, you know, reach out to me, feel free to send me a DM on Instagram, the information, uh, we’ll be live by the time this goes live so you can just go to raise your hand, say yes.com, um, and get all the details there and apply and all of that. So, um, you know, it’s been a cat. You’re such like a testament to what can happen when you show up and, and do the work. And it’s been so fun getting to watch you in this program makes so much happen and try so many different things and learn so much and um, it’s just such a joy. So thank you.

Kat: No, thank you. It’s been wonderful. And I actually meant to touch on a little bit of what I’d been working on, um, what I’ve been working on during the course, but there’s just a lot that I, I feel like I’ve accomplished so much over the past 11 months. And by the, by the time we officially close at the end of this month, I feel like it’ll be even more. But I’ve gotten, I’ll be done with two, two drafts of novels. Um, I’ve obviously launched this podcast. I did another little podcast mini series, um, with hallmark Valentine’s movies back in February. Um, and I just, I don’t know, I’ve gotten so much out of working with you, getting to know the other women in the course. Um, and it’s just, it’s been really inspiring. Not to sound like this is a commercial for inner circle, but it kind of, it, yeah, no, it’s been wonderful. So, I mean I, anyone who follows me on social media is familiar with the fact that I am a big advocate of your process and that I’ve gotten a lot out of it. So, um, I will include information about that obviously in the show notes and um, as Tiffany says, everything will be open once this episode goes live and you can reach out to her as well.

Tiffany: Yeah. And if you’re hearing this, um, and you’re interested, there are a limited number of spots so if you’re wondering about it like don’t delay because we do expect it to sell out. Um, and so I’d hate for you to miss your chance because it does only come around once a year. Yeah, definitely. Tiffany, thank you

Kat: so much. I can’t even tell you how much I appreciate your taking the time to chat with me today. It’s been so wonderful to connect

Tiffany: Kat. Thank you. This is the best.

Kat: Yes. Agreed. Okay, thanks so much and I will talk to you soon.

Tiffany: Yay. Thanks, Kat. Bye.

Kat: Bye.


So that’s this week’s episode of How to Be Creative. As always, you can find show notes, including a complete episode transcript and links to everything discussed at howtobecreative.org.

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